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Summary:
September 15, 2020 was Independence Day in Honduras. But some ask: What independence? We look at this manifestation of many Hondurans in the context of one of the many roles of the US in the Honduran political context.
Host Karen Spring speaks with Gabriela Amador of the Pro-Honduras Network to discuss the legal cases against Honduran drug traffickers in US courts.
Transcript:
Karen Spring: Hi, everyone. Welcome to this episode of the podcast. I’m coming to you from Tegucigalpa, the capital city of Honduras. It’s been an interesting week here.
Last night was kind of wild here in Tegucigalpa. For several hours there were helicopters flying over the city, and especially this side of the city where we live. It seems like the government decided to carry out random military operations throughout the night. In the evening, Edwin and I went to drop off some of his family members in a neighborhood about 10 minutes from our home. We drove by two military checkpoints. Some of the military that were at the checkpoints were from the anti-gang units. And they stood with transit police, stopping vehicles on the road. In one neighborhood that we passed through, there were hundreds and hundreds of military soldiers in the streets, stopping people, mostly young people, lining them up, checking them out, asking for their ID cards, and even patting them down. It kind of looked like a war was going on. But we have no idea why it was so militarized last night. But it’s still scary.
Some people think it has to do with all the electoral discussions happening in the country. But the general elections are over a year away.
Independence Day
So other than the militarization last night, which might be related, this week has been a week of celebration in Honduras. On September 15, Honduras celebrated its 199 years of independence. This is usually a pretty big deal here. Firecrackers go off all throughout the day. And there’s always two big events. The government holds a big public ceremony, it usually is in the National Stadium. And then the opposition are the people that refuse to participate in the government’s Independence Day celebrations, organize a counter-protest.
Both things happened this year, despite the very strict state of siege, or curfew, that the government decided to make even stricter on the actual day of celebration, September 15, using COVID-19 measures as an excuse. But what the opposition usually does on Independence Day is organize protests to ask, “What independence?” And the “What independence?” protests usually are violently repressed by the police, and this year was no exception. At least eight people were arrested in the center of Tegucigalpa and two people were injured. So even though Honduras and several other Central American countries became independent from Spain in 1821, many call it a fake independence.
“What Independence?”
I want to share a short message that I received from a Honduran intellectual on September 15th, it reads: “September 15 in Honduras. The best highways in the country are managed by the Ecuadorians. The most important port in the country is administered by Filipinos. The distribution of energy is controlled by a Colombian company. Our minerals are taken by the Canadians, the Americans, and the Italians. The water supply in San Pedro Sula is Italian. And a huge part of Trujillo Bay in northern Honduras is owned by Canadians. Happy Independence Day!” So that kind of gives you a sense of how Hondurans feel about September 15.
Some point to the role of the United States in Honduras when asking “What independence?” Honduras is, after all, home to the largest US military base in the region. Others firmly believe that President Juan Orlando Hernández would not be in power if he wasn’t considered such a strong U.S. ally. And the list goes on.
This kind of brings me to today’s topic, the drug trafficking cases being heard in US courts against Honduran politicians, former police officers, and other sketchy figures accused of trafficking thousands of kilos of cocaine into the United States.
Quick Summary of Drug Cases in US Courts
For those that have never heard about these drug cases, I’ll give a quick breakdown. Since approximately 2013, the US Southern District Court of New York and other courts, but the Southern District Court of New York seems to be the most active, have been indicting many Hondurans on drug trafficking charges. And that is trafficking drugs through Honduras or through Central American countries and other countries into the United States. Now the Hondurans accused aren’t small-potato drug traffickers. These are pretty powerful drug traffickers – people that have worked through networks that fed the drug supply of the infamous Sinaloa drug cartel headed by the infamous Mexican drug trafficker “El Chapo” Guzman.
Several Hondurans are facing some serious charges in US courts. The former head of the National Police of Honduras has been indicted. The brother of the current president of Honduras has also been indicted. And the past and current presidents themselves are named as co-conspirators in the conspiracies to traffic thousands of kilos of cocaine to the United States. For a small country like Honduras, these drug cases are causing serious political turmoil in the country. They are revealing really damning information about how much key high-level Hondurans, many in government institutions and in government positions, are involved in drug trafficking.
Trump’s Support for Juan Orlando Hernandez
So this whole topic turns completely bizarre and complicated when you start looking at the support of the United States and Canadian governments for Honduras, and for the Honduran government. The current president, Juan Orlando Hernández, is an unindicted drug trafficker, according to the US Southern District Court. But Trump still loves him, talks to him, takes Juan Orlando Hernández’s advice, even on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine to combat COVID-19.
I’m just gonna play a really short clip of President Trump talking about his conversations with President Juan Orlando Hernández in April 2020, about hydroxychloroquine and the effectiveness of the drug that Trump was once promoting.
[From audio]
Donald Trump: So I did speak with the president of Honduras just a little while ago. And I didn’t bring it up. He brought it up. He said, they use the hydroxychloroquine. And he said the results are so incredible with hydroxychloroquine. This happened an hour ago, I just spoke to president of Honduras. And he said, and I guess we made some available to them or whatever, he was thanking me. And I said, how is the result then? And he said, it’s been incredible. Now, I don’t know, he’s not a doctor I don’t think. But he thanked me. And he said the results have been very good. So you hear it both ways. I’ve seen all negative other than the other day, I saw some study, which wasn’t good. But here’s the president of Honduras saying how good it was. I mean, I didn’t even bring up the subject, he brought it up. But check with him, call him, the president of Honduras. A really nice guy. I just left him on the phone.
Karen Spring: So that was President Trump talking about President Juan Orlando Hernández. And that’s after he was named as a co-conspirator in a drug trafficking case in New York. But what’s even more bizarre than Trump’s ongoing communication with an accused drug trafficker in Honduras, that he calls “a really nice guy,” is how the Honduran justice system and prosecutor’s office have not indicted or investigated any of the drug traffickers that the New York courts are indicting.
This is why Hondurans ask “What independence?” The US dumps millions of dollars into Honduras, to quote unquote, “strengthen the fight against corruption and impunity,” according to the State Department. Yet U.S. courts are the ones that are indicting, extraditing, and investigating Honduran traffickers controlling the government. So “What independence?” is what many Hondurans ask.
Introducing Gabriela Amador, Pro-Honduras Network
Today I’m inviting Gabriela Amador, an activist living in the Washington DC area. Gabriela works with the organization called the Pro-Honduras Network. I discussed with Gaby some of the inner workings of these legal cases that have been filed and argued in New York courts against Honduran citizens for cases related to drug trafficking, conspiracies to traffic drugs into the United States, and also the use of weapons to traffic those drugs. Gaby and I also discussed the political impacts of this dependency on U.S. courts to investigate Honduran drug traffickers, instead of Honduran courts and Honduran investigators themselves.
But before I introduce Gabriela Amador, I want to tell you a bit more about what Gaby and her team at the Pro-Honduras Network do. Many of you probably don’t know much about them. All of their communication and work is largely directed at Hondurans. And it’s always in Spanish. They work as a small team. They travel from the DC area to New York. They sit in the trials and in the hearings. And they pore through hundreds of pages of court documents that are made public. And then what they do is they take this information and they put it into the context for Hondurans to understand. They do live streams on Facebook to inform Hondurans about all the details of the drug cases happening up there far away in New York, in a justice system with different rules, different policies, and different dynamics.
The Pro-Honduras Network is the only media outlet that’s run by Hondurans that are constantly informing all of Honduras about what is happening up there in US courts. Otherwise, I don’t even think Hondurans would hear half of the information that’s being revealed in New York courts about their own political system and their government. Sure, the New York Times and other media outlets are also informing Hondurans in English, and others, about the cases. But none to the depth that the Pro-Honduras Network does. And all the information matters – all the tiny details. It matters because of how much corruption and drug trafficking affects the entire country from the urban neighborhoods and urban cities, to the small rural communities throughout the country.
So Gaby Amador is a long time activist. She’s a trained teacher, born and raised in Honduras. Since she started reporting on drug cases, and the involvement of high level government officials in drug trafficking and corruption, mostly revealed in these New York drug cases, she’s faced several threats, and is largely unable to return to Honduras. Gaby is smart. She takes her job seriously. She feels very committed because of her belief that all Hondurans have the right to know what is unfolding in U.S. courts, and how the information affects their lives and their futures in Honduras.
So without further ado, I’m going to share with you my interview with Gaby Amador. I started by asking her to describe what the Pro-Honduras Network does. Where are they based? And how did they get started in the work that they do?
Gabriela Amador: Pro-Honduras Network is a civil society organization of Hondurans that live mostly in Washington, Maryland and Virginia. The organization was formed in 2015, when the torch light marches were taking place in Honduras. Pro-Honduras Network is involved in the fight against corruption and impunity. We participate in lobbying and in meetings that have taken place in the U.S. in Washington. We try to be involved in activities that take place here in order to inform Hondurans. The Honduran media doesn’t inform the people. So we have tried to fill that space and work to fight for the right of Hondurans to know what happens in the U.S. in relation to issues that affect them. There have been many high level politicians and powerful people involved in corruption and drug trafficking. We work to investigate these cases here in U.S. courts, expose and publish all this information and report on them through the channels we have.
Karen Spring: So Gaby, what is it like being a Honduran, sitting in a US Court watching all the trials happening against really powerful figures in Honduras? Can you describe just what you think? I mean, you’ve sat in a lot of different hearings and trials. I’m really curious to hear what you have to say, being a Honduran and sitting in those spaces.
No Justice in Honduras
Gabriela Amador: Well, it’s a positive thing from the point of view that there is no justice in Honduras. Unfortunately, we have to come to a foreign country, to the United States, to see a little bit of justice, and a little bit of punishment against people that have used the state and the Honduran government to commit criminal acts. From an informative or immediate point of view, it’s comforting to hear this type of information being exposed. Because these accusations and information being said in U.S. courts would never come out in Honduras. And because justice is carried out only against those that are less privileged. But there isn’t any justice for white collar criminals in Honduras. Agents in charge of bringing about justice work in collusion with white collar criminals. So as a Honduran, as an experience being in U.S. courts and these types of cases, I can say it’s very unique. I have lived to be able to see the brother of the current president of Honduras, accused of drug trafficking, and then found guilty. I think that, in the end, it gives a little bit of hope that in reality, these people will eventually face justice, and that maybe, at some point, we can clean up our country of the corrupt political class that is currently governing Honduras.
Karen Spring: There have been several cases against politicians, police officers, and others accused of drug trafficking. One of the most significant cases is the case against Juan Antonio, or Tony, Hernández, the baby brother of the current President Juan Orlando Hernández. So we sat together in the same courtroom as Juan Orlando Hernández’s mother, and Tony Hernández, his son. There were so many Hondurans in that courtroom that would never ever dream of sharing a space, such an official space, with such a powerful family, the Hernández family. That would never happen in Honduras.
Tony Hernández’s case has obviously been one of the most impactful in Honduras. In terms of U.S. policy, even after Tony was convicted, President Trump has spoken favorably about Juan Orlando Hernández. What do you think are the most important revealing and impactful points, arguments, or even information that has come from the Tony Hernández case in New York?
Key Information from the Tony Hernandez’s Case
Gabriela Amador: I think the most important part of what has come from Tony Hernández’s trial is the entire systemization and publication of what has been happening in Honduras – specifically the illicit acts of the government to traffic drugs, the impunity that the presidency has enjoyed, and the direct involvement of the current president, Juan Orlando Hernández, in drug trafficking. The court is even calling our country a narco or drug state, practically a sponsor of drug trafficking.
I think the most fundamental outcome has been how the cases in official court documents from the New York courts have exposed the corrupt political elite. The cases have shown that corruption starts in the presidential palace and filters even to the director of the state institution responsible for fighting and stopping drug trafficking.
Honduran public officials mentioned for involvement in drug trafficking include the Minister of Security, Julián Pacheco, and the current energy minister, Roberto Ordoñez. Also, there is documentation that affirms that since 2013, Juan Orlando and his sister, Hilda Hernández are being investigated. Juan Orlando Hernández’s sister worked as a minister. The presidential minister, Ebal Díaz, is also being investigated. So through these U.S. court cases, we are seeing how the criminal structure of the state originates from the presidential palace, congressional representatives, ministers, and mayors. Through this mafia, drug traffickers have been financing political campaigns.
This is one of the main reasons why Honduras is currently drowning in impunity, corruption, and misery. And it’s because the same drug traffickers at one time became allied with the political elite that today maintain control. They have put individuals in key positions in the government so that the National Party can continue in power, all financed by drug cartels. You can say that the National Party has been converted into a drug cartel because many of the leaders of the party are involved in drug trafficking. So I think, to summarize, the most important aspect of the case has been to expose the political elite in Honduras, to unmask the modus operandi of, according to U.S. federal prosecutors, Juan Orlando and Tony, who were promoted and sought positions of power with the objective of becoming the president of Congress, and later, the president of Honduras, in order to carry out drug trafficking activities. Juan Orlando is practically a drug trafficking president. This case has led to the release of an enormous amount of information. And this has been the most valuable contribution.
Maybe there is more information to come. For example, in the case of the Valle Valle Honduran drug cartel, where there is a huge amount of information that is still sealed. It remains confidential. Whereas in the case against Tony Hernández, a lot of the information was made public. I think maybe that is one of the objectives of the U.S. federal prosecutors, to make the political elite in Honduras know that the prosecutors know what is happening in Honduras, that the political elite know that they are being investigated, and that bit by bit weaken the drug trafficking structures that exist in Honduras.
Karen Spring: Yeah, the way that you say that, it almost seems like the U.S. federal prosecutors want the political elite to know, but, I mean, action is another thing. So some people think that the prosecutors are, or that the United States is just going to use that information, get what they want in Honduras, from Juan Orlando Hernández, instead of actually indicting him or holding him accountable for his drug trafficking that they have so clearly outlined.
So former president Porfirio “Pepe” Lobo, who was supposedly elected five months after the 2009 military coup in Honduras, and that was called by the U.S. and Canadian governments as the government of reconciliation, following all the turmoil after the 2009 military coup. So while in the presidency, Pepe Lobo’s son, Fabio Lobo, was actively transporting drugs across the country, with the help of U.S.-trained Honduran military and police. And that’s not something I’m making up, Gaby. I mean, you heard this information. This is really well-documented, how the former president’s son, Fabio Lobo, was following cars filled with cocaine, and basically using his status as the son of the president at the time to get by military and police checkpoints. And he would call on his own security detail, who are military and police, to come with him as he was doing this alongside other Honduran drug traffickers. So Fabio Lobo was later indicted by U.S. authorities, and he’s currently in prison in the U.S. on drug trafficking charges. But it’s weird because Pepe Lobo was also named as a co-conspirator in the Tony Hernández case, but he has not been formally indicted by the U.S. Justice Department. He doesn’t enjoy immunity anymore because he’s no longer president.
So Gaby, why do you think that he hasn’t been indicted by U.S. authorities or by the U.S. Justice Department?
Former President Porfirio Lobo Named as Co-Conspirator
Gabriela Amador: While there was a time that we reflected on this, asking ourselves why ex-president Pepe Lobo is still free in Honduras, I can’t be sure of the reason, but I’ll share some of the ways we at the Pro-Honduras Network understand the situation. I think, for example, that his son, Fabio Lobo, pleaded guilty to drug trafficking charges in the U.S., but never signed a cooperation agreement with U.S. prosecutors, and he would have been a fundamental witness, for example, if U.S. authorities were to proceed judicially against Pepe Lobo. Obviously his son would be the main person that could theoretically put forward firsthand information about his father’s involvement.
But, in addition, federal prosecutors do have other witnesses, like Devis Leonel Maradiaga, who is part of the Los Cachiros cartel, who is cooperating with U.S.authorities and who has already testified that they met personally with Pepe Lobo to discuss trafficking drugs. It’s also possible that Pepe Lobo is collaborating with U.S.authorities with information or possibly waiting for the ideal moment to collaborate if U.S. prosecutors indict him.
Maybe he’s not the fundamental objective of the investigation. Federal prosecutors seem to be more concentrating on the Juan Orlando Hernández case, and others close to him who are more of a priority, because Juan Orlando Hernández is still in power. And it’s through him that large quantities of drugs were being trafficked to the U.S.and other parts of the world. I really can’t say for sure what the motives of U.S. prosecutors are, or why they have not decided to indict Lobo.
Karen Spring: Okay, so that might be a really actually good reason why they haven’t indicted Pepe Lobo. Maybe they don’t have, you know, sufficient testimony against him to indict him on drug trafficking, but they certainly do name him as a co-conspirator. So while Fabio Lobo obviously is not going to testify against his father, and there are really big differences also in the case against the former Honduran president and the case against the current president, Juan Orlando Hernández.
Comparing Drug Cases: Fabio Lobo & Tony Hernandez
Gabriela Amador: Well, Fabio Lobo pleaded guilty, whereas Tony Hernández didn’t. The thing is, they arrested Tony when he was traveling to Miami, and they showed him the proof they have against him. U.S. agents were making it clear that he would lose a trial. There are deep family interests, direct connections, blood connections between Tony and Juan Orlando. Tony didn’t plead guilty and decided to go to trial. Prosecutors have a bunch of collaborating witnesses against the Hernández brothers. One of the fundamental reasons that Juan Orlando Hernández hasn’t been indicted is because of the immunity he has as the Honduran president, but there’s so much evidence against him. They could keep gathering evidence against Juan Orlando Hernández through his co-conspirators. First, Mauricio Hernández Pineda, who is also a cousin of Juan Orlando Hernández, was indicted. Later, there were charges against the former head of the National Police that, according to prosecutors, is one of the closest people, or Juan Orlando Hernández’s right-hand man, that was used to carry out assassinations in different criminal activities on his behalf. So it’s possible that U.S. prosecutors are trying to gather more information, because Juan Orlando Hernández in the end used his brother to meet with drug traffickers to personally handle issues related to trafficking drugs.
Karen Spring: So Gaby, what impact do you think Tony Hernández case will have on the 2021 general elections in Honduras, while we wait for the sentencing to take place? Because it’s been postponed so many times. I mean, he’s been found guilty by a jury, but he hasn’t been formally sentenced. The sentencing date has been changed, I don’t even know how many times, like five or six times. Honduras is entering another election year, and many are worried that Juan Orlando Hernández is going to run again for president, since it’s a way to not only protect himself from any possibilities of being indicted, but also continue to promote his drug cartel’s economic interests, from his position as president, and all of those interests are really entrenched in the state. So what impact do you think Tony’s case will have on the 2021 elections, especially once he is sentenced?
Impact of Drug Case on 2021 General Elections
Gabriela Amador: I think there are two fundamental situations that Tony’s case will have an impact on in the context of the 2021 elections in Honduras. One, it’s obvious that the political elite are going to unite all the corrupt political elite to keep Juan Orlando Hernández in power, and by doing this, guarantee total impunity.
I think that this will impact that amount of money that, again, the corrupt elite will invest in the elections through stealing from public institutions. Just look what is happening now with the COVID-19 crisis. They have approved and budgeted millions of dollars that have not been invested in healthcare or in providing medical attention to people that get sick with COVID-19. So what could be happening is that the corrupt political elite headed by Juan Orlando Hernández are looking how to get their hands on more money to finance the future electoral campaign, and not just the campaign, but another electoral fraud. One of the ways that the National Party has remained in power during three consecutive periods or almost 12 years is also through drug money and through bribes. They have sought to control the electoral system, especially how votes are gathered and counted in the western departments of Honduras. The purpose of these loyal mayors, where they have practically total control over municipal offices, congressional representatives, is to divide up the money they can steal through these officials, to buy votes, to stuff ballot boxes, and to guarantee a win for the National Party. A re-election of Juan Orlando Hernández is possible because it’s a way that he can guarantee his freedom.
It’s possible, if the opposition unites and put aside political interests, to defeat Juan Orlando Hernández. I think that these elections are going to be in the eye of the hurricane more than any previous elections, because the type of president we have has been exposed nationally and internationally. I think it will depend a lot on the political context and also the social pressure in Honduras.
Karen Spring: So Gaby, a lot of our audience, the North Americans that are interested in Honduras, and they do solidarity work with Honduras. So why do you think North Americans, both solidarity activists, and just the standard North American, should care about these drug cases, and drug trafficking in Honduras?
Drug Trafficking: Not Just A “Honduran Problem”
Gabriela Amador: I think that this issue affects both countries. It’s an issue of bilateral interest. To start, the drugs that are being trafficked end up here in the U.S. This is their final destination. It’s why the trafficking is happening in the first place. And this generates violence in our Latin American countries. And it forces people to migrate from their country and join migrant caravans to seek asylum in the United States. Drug trafficking produces violence in our country. It produces migration and corruption, especially in the government. It also generates poverty and a lack of opportunities for the Honduran population. So I think Americans should care about these drug cases if they want to avoid the mass migration of Hondurans to the U.S. This is an international policy issue. As we know, the U.S. hasn’t wanted to receive big migrant caravans.
The other issue is the large quantities of drugs that pass through Honduras. Honduras is one of the main drug corridors in Central America. And now, not only is it a country that drugs pass through, but also it’s been converted into a drug-producing country, and traffickers are producing drugs in Honduras, and even stamping their initials in the drug packages. I’ve never known a president in another country to have been a drug trafficker before becoming president, and then using political power, and other traffickers, allies, and associates to get to the presidency in order to have absolute control of the country. I think that the particular case of Juan Orlando Hernández and Tony Hernández is unique in the history of Latin America. People should know the impact this has, the bad effect it has on our country, which ends up affecting the U.S. too through migration.
Karen Spring: Yeah, and it’s unfortunate that the U.S.media doesn’t talk more about the role of drug trafficking by the government when they’re talking about migration, and the root causes of migration, to the United States.
So Gaby, I just want to thank you so much for sharing your perspective with us. The Pro-Honduras Network has played such an important role in informing the Honduran people through their livestreams on Facebook whenever there’s new information. Where can people find more information about these drug cases, and more information about the Pro-Honduras Network?
Gabriela Amador: We have a website, www.ProHondurasNetwork.com. We also have our Facebook page where we do live transmissions from outside the courts, and also on Twitter, @Prohn_Honduras. We are also fundraising at the moment for the work we do. We have a GoFundMe campaign that we encourage people to donate to our work, and to help us keep covering these cases and informing the Honduran people.
Karen Spring: So that was Gabriela Amador of the Pro-Honduras Network, talking to us from the Washington area.
And that’s all for the episode today, folks. Thank you so much for listening. Some people have donated to the podcast, and I just want to thank them so very much. I unfortunately can’t see who’s donating. Otherwise, I would write every single one to thank them very much for their support. I will be posting the show notes to this episode on HondurasNow.org on our website. And I just want to thank you so much for joining me today. This is Karen Spring, your host, signing off. Hasta pronto.